What happened?

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Hiddenjem
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What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:43 pm

In the other state, I worked for a church with the babies and children for ten years. We have lived here for three years.

When we left, daughter was 16 (about to turn 17 though.) A man who works there who is early 40's confessed that he has feelings for my daughter. Daughter volunteered in the youth department for many years. She was 9 or so when she started. He asked permission to court her when she turned 18. He explained how he would work out details (his brother lives 20 minutes from where we moved to) and he could visit her here. He said that she would be the perfect wife.

I told him that there was too big of a age difference.

He moved on and was married a month ago.

Daughter and I went back to visit the church a week ago tommorrow to see how much the youth have grown and to see everyone. We left on good terms and there were no arguments etc. The minister said that I always had a job there.

We treated in a "icy way. We were approached first by the man who asked to court daughter. He flat out asked, "Are you married?" She answered, "No." Then, he walked away.

The minister was looking at us oddly. He gave me a hug but not my daughter. Then, walked away. Everyone looked at us like we had two heads!

We didn't do anything wrong. We worked hard for the youth and got along with everyone in the church, I had keys to the church and was trust worthy and valuable.

We left after 15 minutes. We drove 2 hours and a half hours to get there for the day trip! We didn't feel welcome.

Any ideas why?

My theories include the man covering his butt by saying lies about me or my daughter to everyone,

Or both of us?

Or I had done or said something wrong?

How would of you handied the situation that I was faced with the same decision if it was a daughter or loved one of yours?

It is really hurtful. I had planned on living there in that state and working at that church but my husbands job situation required that we had to move away, I loved my job there, the youth, and the church members.

Thanks for listening . Any opinions or insights are appreciated.
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

JeanLouiseFinch
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Re: What happened?

Post by JeanLouiseFinch » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:21 am

I think you should phone the minister and speak to him about this creepster who obviously still wants your daughter. Tell the minister the whole story and warn him to keep this guy away from the younger women and teenage girls. I am sorry that you are now somewhat detached from this church, but I would try to steer clear of any group or individual that thinks matching a 16 year-old girl up with a man in his 40's is at all acceptable. It might have been OK in our grandparents' time, along with slavery and surgery without anesthetic, but it is definitely not OK in an era where women are expected to be educated, work and have a life that does not include nonstop drudgery and childbearing at home. If the minister does not think this guy was out of line in the first place, or believes this creepy old man instead of you, maybe you need to rethink how this Church is run.

As I have said on this forum before, I am Jewish. The ultra-orthodox Jews are just like fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims in the way they mistreat women. If you want a glimpse into the life of a woman condemned to marry too young, do some investigation into the Haredis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO106P4izqA

Hiddenjem
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Re: What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:34 pm

I watched the video and it was very informative.

Thank you.

In hindsite, the man offered to help with any homework in math or science. (He does x rays for a living.) She didn't need help with her schoolwork and was always with me at church.

It is shocking that he could of viewed my daughter in a sexual way.

One day, he approached us with a older woman who he introduced to us as his mother. He made a big deal out of it. Daughter and I thought that maybe he was just so proud of his mom? It did seem odd.

Then, one time he asked me to write out or email vegan recipes to his mom. He was interested in becoming vegan like us. She was open to if as well. I am open to sharing recipes and sample shopping lists etc. I thought nothing of it.

One day after church service was over, he came down to the nursery. He talked to my daughter and I for a few hours. He paid attention to item that my daughter was knitting and said she would be the perfect wife for some man. He showed my daughter that he used a Chapstick that was animal product free from a health food store and talked about shopping at a vegan friendly store that we told him about when he asked.

I just thought of him as decent person who double checked every Sunday and Wednesday that I had locked the doors downstairs. It could of been a excuse to talk to my daughter.

He contacted me by texting after we moved out of state. He asked how we were doing. What was daughter up to etc. I mentioned she was seeing someone. His response was odd. It was as if it made him feel betrayed.

Does all of this add up to red flags to anyone?
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

blue iris
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Location: Illinois

Re: What happened?

Post by blue iris » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:04 pm

Hi, Jem!

Long time no talk!

Red flags? Yes! Individually, maybe not, but put together, yes, they definitely creep me out. I think you should have a talk with the minister and see if you can get to the bottom of it. For your own peace of mind, but also to make sure the guy isn't stalking some other young lady at the church. Keep us posted.

Hiddenjem
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Re: What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:41 pm

Hi, Blue Iris!

I will.
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

jigglypuff
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Re: What happened?

Post by jigglypuff » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:32 pm

I'm guessing the man is making up lies and planting seeds of deception in the church against you and your family?

He sounds like an obsessed, pedo stalker. Take this man very seriously because he can do harm.

I would also suggest talking to the minister but also be wary, a wise church leader would not allow himself to be easily influenced by the tall tales of a man. Don't be surprised if it's confirmed that these people have turned on you. That guy could have said anything.

If this turns out to be the case, well, then you know where you stand with them. You don't need people like that in your life.
'As the days go by, I think of how lucky I am... That you're not here to ruin it for me'

Hiddenjem
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Re: What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:52 pm

Thank you Jiggy.

I remember something else. The man approached me talking about a female teenager in the church who was very openly sexually active. He said that if he wasn't mistaken my daughter wasn't like her and she could try to be a role model for her, He was asking me if she was a v-----! (She is but that is none of his business. I didn't think much of it at the time and told him that that my daughter has tried to befriend her and was rejected. I guess I regrettably answered his question about daughter's v status though.

I did some research and am now horrified about what I never knew about the church.

It is a non denominational type of church, in the event anyone wondered, and the pastor has a history of encouraging men to leave their wives. I talked to a grandparent of one of the children that I took care of in the youth program. The minister and group of male leaders acted together to encourage him to end their relationship. Then, they arranged a relationship for him from a single lady in the church.

Another parent had the situation as well. She told me that she was shunned and the minister and the male leaders decided their marriage was over, They decided she wasn't devoted enough? He went to church there by himself and she and the children attended another church. I don't know if he will leave the church or his wife at this point,

It is possible that "he" was encouraged to pursue my daughter from the minister and board of make leaders, If am correct, I turned by back on any relationships or ties with the church in that state by protecting my daughter.

I used to take phone messages during the services and experienced a odd phone call from a angry man. I passed on his message and immediacy phone service to the basement where the youth program is located was disconnected. Maybe this should of been a red flag.

I just never "saw" this happening. How did I work there for ten years and not see this issue!

We basically have been "shunned."

Thanks for the support and insights. I appreciate everyone so much.
Last edited by Hiddenjem on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

mamarama
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Re: What happened?

Post by mamarama » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:23 pm

There are red flags and alarm bells going off all over the place. I'm sure he said something to the pastor and/or congregation, though I don't see why he would want to. It's none of their business. And personally, lusting after a minor-age youngster is something that's better kept to oneself. IMHO, I think that guy started telling people that it was your daughter that had a crush on him. Projection, ya know?

I agree with JeanLouise that the pastor should be told about his "affections" for your daughter, especially considering they started when she was so young. If the pastor is aware of this and still allows him around children, especially prepubescent and pubescent, that's a crime and a lawsuit just waiting to happen.

Honestly, don't worry too much about why you were shunned. You've moved on, have a different life now in a different state, and probably will never see any of them again.

(considering the cool reception you got there, don't bother going back. You don't need that dramarama ;) )

knock the dust from your heels and carry on mama!

Hiddenjem
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Re: What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:31 pm

Mamarama,

I smiled the first time in a long time when I read your comment.

Thank you so much.
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

jigglypuff
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Re: What happened?

Post by jigglypuff » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:54 pm

It is a non denominational type of church, in the event anyone wondered, and the pastor has a history of encouraging men to leave their wives. I talked to a grandparent of one of the children that I took care of in the youth program. The minister and group of male leaders acted together to encourage him to end their relationship. Then, they arranged a relationship for him from a single lady in the church.

Another parent had the situation as well. She told me that she was shunned and the minister and the male leaders decided their marriage was over, They decided she wasn't devoted enough? He went to church there by himself and she and the children attended another church. I don't know if he will leave the church or his wife at this point,

It is possible that "he" was encouraged to pursue my daughter from the minister and board of make leaders, If am correct, I turned by back on any relationships or ties with the church in that state by protecting my daughter.
Woah :o

That is a lot of crazy right there. But this really isn't too surprising considering how corrupt most churches are nowadays. You say you don't know how you missed all of this but honestly, it's very easy to be blinded by such things. Especially when you feel that there isn't a need to be on guard. Thankfully you now know the truth and can protect your family. Sorry things turned out this way. Hopefully in time you can find another church you can work in. A place devoid of depravity like this.
'As the days go by, I think of how lucky I am... That you're not here to ruin it for me'

Hiddenjem
Nuclear
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:06 am

Re: What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:25 pm

I honestly would be surprised if I ever pursued a job in a church again.

Thanks for understanding me missing the clues.
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

MountainLover
Infuriated
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Re: What happened?

Post by MountainLover » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:46 pm

My opinion:

You were oblivious to the fact that this church is a sexual abuse and misogyny mill. It's something you can't see until your eyes are opened, because it's essentially a cult situation. Thank heavens you and especially your daughter got out pretty much unscathed.

Talking to the pastor about this creepster will get you nowhere except perhaps even "more shunned."

I have BTDT with the toxic church thing. I am so sorry you got treated this way. I know how much it hurts. For me it's been about eight years since the shunning, and I'm still not over it all, despite continuing in faith, finding a new, completely different church, transforming my Christianity into a different sort of path altogether (went basically from fundamentalist-ish to progressive, from magical thinking to academic theological thinking).

I'm happy to talk privately if you'd like. ****hugs****

Hiddenjem
Nuclear
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:06 am

Re: What happened?

Post by Hiddenjem » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:03 pm

Mountain lover,

It helps more than you realize you care and you can relate. Yet, I am sorry that can relate. ((((Hugs))))

I feel like I am mourning a death. Yet, it is challanging not to be hard on myself for being naive.

True, it is good that we left that situation and that what matter.

Two of the neighbors in the house we are renting out in that state go to that church. The plan is to try to sale it again after their lease is over. I don't want any ties to that state where the church is located.

Yesterday, was a tough day. I struggled but made it through. Today was better.

I appreciate your kind offer. Thank you.
"I have learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

MountainLover
Infuriated
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Re: What happened?

Post by MountainLover » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:55 pm

Hiddenjem wrote: I feel like I am mourning a death. Yet, it is challanging not to be hard on myself for being naive.
Be grateful you were naïve. It means your heart was not polluted like theirs are. This won't sink in for quite some time, but try to write it on your forehead, so to speak.

Two of the neighbors in the house we are renting out in that state go to that church. The plan is to try to sale it again after their lease is over. I don't want any ties to that state where the church is located.
Check your lease and talk to a real estate agent. I bet you can put it up for sale tomorrow and be totally within your rights as an owner.

*****HUGS*****


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